square driveshaft

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RkyMtnH
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Re: square driveshaft

Post by RkyMtnH » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:35 pm

sjjeep1 wrote:
ReneDave wrote:Nicely done, but that's a heck of a lot of slop you had to work out! :shock:
Actually pretty typical for square tube, you will never get a perfectly tight fit just because the way square tube is made and the different radius curves for different sized tube. Hell I went to several steel supply/welding places to buy tube for it, and most of them said it was impossible and I would never be able to slide one piece in another. I just kinda laughed at them and said yea its done all the time for this purpose. A few of them actually took offense, and gave me the "I've been doing this for 25 years and it will never work blah blah blah" speech. Maybe i should take the finished shaft back and show them that it can be done :lol:
Let us know when it going to happen . I don't wanna be late for it . :twisted:
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Re: square driveshaft

Post by ReneDave » Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:16 pm

Yeah, I knew there's some slop because of how the 1/4" plate contracts after it's forged, but I didn't realize there would be that much. Regardless, that's a pretty ingenious way of dealing with it!
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Re: square driveshaft

Post by karlvin08 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:58 pm

sjjeep1 wrote:
ReneDave wrote:Nicely done, but that's a heck of a lot of slop you had to work out! :shock:
Actually pretty typical for square tube, you will never get a perfectly tight fit just because the way square tube is made and the different radius curves for different sized tube. Hell I went to several steel supply/welding places to buy tube for it, and most of them said it was impossible and I would never be able to slide one piece in another. I just kinda laughed at them and said yea its done all the time for this purpose. A few of them actually took offense, and gave me the "I've been doing this for 25 years and it will never work blah blah blah" speech. Maybe i should take the finished shaft back and show them that it can be done :lol:

Oryou could just tell them to take a look at a receiver hitch on a truck.
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Re: square driveshaft

Post by ReneDave » Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:54 pm

karlvin08 wrote:Oryou could just tell them to take a look at a receiver hitch on a truck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
:lol: That would be waaaaaaaaay too easy.
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Re: square driveshaft

Post by sjjeep1 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:47 pm

karlvin08 wrote: Oryou could just tell them to take a look at a receiver hitch on a truck.
Exactly! I don't know why they couldn't quite understand that!
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Re: square driveshaft

Post by appalachian offroad » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:25 pm

FYI

These square driveshafts are very heavy and will eventually destroy pinion bearings and transfer case output bearings.
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Re: square driveshaft

Post by ripster » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:49 am

appalachian offroad wrote:These square driveshafts are very heavy and will eventually destroy pinion bearings and transfer case output bearings.
The voice of reason strikes again! :(

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Re: square driveshaft

Post by Cowboy » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:23 am

appalachian offroad wrote:FYI

These square driveshafts are very heavy and will eventually destroy pinion bearings and transfer case output bearings.
If everything is lined up, is that still a major problem? I would think if the u-joints aren't getting bound up it would be o.k. Also, if it's a trailer queen does that apply for long(er) term? Just wondering. Any advice appreciated Mike. Don't want folks getting into a situation that will end up regretting and destroying parts of their drive-train.
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Re: square driveshaft

Post by Brent Borgaard » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:47 am

I`ve seen square shafts all the time on farm equipment and dump truck pto`s. Where the pump is an a remote position.
How did i spend four grand on parts in one month?

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Re: square driveshaft

Post by sjjeep1 » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:20 am

It is a heavier shaft, and I would only use it for trail riding and crawling. The good thing is skyler has manual hubs so when he's driving on the highway the shaft doesn't turn.

I know alot of people use them on their wheeling rigs without problem, just do a search on pirate. I also know that on equipment the shafts (both for drive and pto) are MUCH heavier than automotive driveshafts. They are built similar to to much heavier than the square tube one i built. I've never seen or heard of any premature bearing failures due to the heavy shafts on them, sometimes its unbelievable the number of hours on a machine and everything is still working fine.

For instance I have a utility tractor with a mid 1000rpm pto that I run a large snowblower and other attachments in front of the tractor. The pto shaft is much heavier than one of square tube, and the bearings on the stub shaft it connects to and the bearings in the implement gearbox are smaller than a pinion bearing. In fact the bearings on the stub shaft are even nongreasable and sit outside in the elements all the time. After over 10 years of use those bearings are still running fine with no sign of excess play or wear, which even surprises me since they get no lubrication.

On a trail rig i would not at all be afraid to run a properly built square driveshaft. I don't completely disagree with mike, as yes the extra weight of the shaft may cause the bearings to wear slightly more than with a lighter shaft, however on a trail rig I don't think your going to see the amount of miles or hours use to kill the bearings.
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Re: square driveshaft

Post by appalachian offroad » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:01 pm

It is near impossible without proper machining and equipment to get the ends square on the tubes. Therefore the balance will definately be out which is no big deal on a 10lb driveshaft but on a 30 lb+ driveshaft we are talking lbs not ozs. Dont get me wrong its not a bad idea for beater trail rigs but I wouldnt put one on a 2000 TJ. Most times they are for vehicles with longer wheel bases and low pinion axles on which the driveshaft is very prone to contact with rocks. People get tired of replacing driveshafts every trip out. How long did it take Skyler to break his front driveshaft? 6 years? How much do you think he could have bought a replacement stock shaft for? Probably less then he had in box tubing.

In conclusion, square driveshafts have their application and I dont think a stock wheelbase TJ is one of them. So now everyone should do the exact opposite of what I say and build square driveshafts.

On a side note Scott can TIG better than I can. :-$
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Re: square driveshaft

Post by sjjeep1 » Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:18 pm

I'll let skyler decide if he's going to run it or use it as a spare. I know alot of times when we break on the trails and miss out on wheeling, we want to beef up and improve what broke so it doesn't happen again, instead of just throwing a stock piece back on. Thats what happened here. He just asked if i'd build him one with square tube, and I just posted this to show people on the site how to do it incase they haven't heard of it before. But your correct its not a balanced shaft and shouldn't be used at higher speeds. I'd have no problem running it on my 2000 tj, but it only gets driven on the trails as a beater...and thats a whole 'nother debate/story right there :lol:

We all really appreciate you being on the site Mike and all your help and advice. You know your stuff, and people should listen to what you have to say, hell I know you've helped me out with stuff multiple times.

And thanks for the TIG compliment :D
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Re: square driveshaft

Post by slvrjp00 » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:21 pm

We will just have to see what happens. I plan to run this driveshaft on altleast the next three wheeling trips and then when money loosenes up a bit I will more than likely get a Tom Woods and use this as a trail spare.
Mike thanks for letting the rest of the club in on what you told me over the phone about what may or may not happen from using a square front driveshaft.
Scott again thanks for making the new driveshaft.
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