Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistance

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Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistance

Post by Cowboy » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:00 am

It's about time. No different than employers requiring employees to do drug tests.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/ ... FZ20120417

More states need to follow suit.
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Re: Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistanc

Post by wesleypipesyo » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:59 am

Too many hippy tree hugging dirt worshipping commie liberals won't let that happen in Maryland
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Re: Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistanc

Post by karlvin08 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:16 am

As much as I like the idea, I don't think it will stand just like in other states that have tried it. I don't buy into the whole unconstitutional argument, however if they get this through what is next? Will they decide that if you have ever smoked you can't qualify for healthcare? What about drinking, or eating double quarter pounders with cheese? It is a slippery slope, and it kind of surprises me that conservatives support it as much as they do. What ever happened to smaller government with less laws?
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Re: Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistanc

Post by Cowboy » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:31 am

I think it's more aimed at this kind of turd:

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Re: Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistanc

Post by ReneDave » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:30 pm

A pretty good read about the arguments for and against drug testing for welfare recipients, its effectiveness, and costs:

http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/11/DrugTesting/ib.shtml

Personally, I believe mandatory drug testing for any welfare recipient amounts to little more than harassment and a waste of taxpayer money. I also disagree with the analog between applying for employment and applying for any sort of welfare - when applying for a job drug testing is performed for liability, safety, and state security concerns (albeit tenuously applied in some instances), and those simply do not apply when it comes to applying for state assistance. I would agree to some sort of screening in specific, warranted, cases, though. For example, someone who has lost their job due to failing a drug test could be required to attend some sort of drug treatment program and/or submit to drug screen to receive certain levels of unemployment benefits. Or in the case of medical benefits, any sort of continued substance abuse, be it legal or illegal, that interferes with a covered treatment would exclude a person from coverage. Both of these have a direct, measurable, return on investment, and both have been successfully implemented to some extent in Maryland and other states.
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Re: Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistanc

Post by MarkF » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:29 pm

Im all for privacy rights but I think you give up some privacy when you ask others to go to work in order to support you. Drug testing is not fool proof but may encourage a few to get up and look for work.
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Re: Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistanc

Post by NavinRJohnson » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:46 pm

Dave -- I think the point with the drug testing though is that it is essentially per se fraud if you are using drugs and receiving welfare. Drugs cost money....quite a bit. So, I don't want to subsidize your drug use. I am not fundamentally opposed to welfare systems, but they should be a hell of a lot more strict in administration, in my opinion.
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Re: Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistanc

Post by relwell » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:53 pm

I would bet an overwhelming proportion of the welfare recipients don't use drugs. It is like a lot of the nonsense you see, a very small population gets a lot of press and gets something banned when most people don't agree...or when a small population of people give the rest a bad name because they sqawk the loudest.

I don't think it is a bad idea, but I think there are better ways. No job? Come in with 20 volunteer hours a week to get your check. You get experience to help you get that job and you help your community which most likely needs it. I know that isn't perfect either, just saying it is cheaper than a drug test and will at least clean up some areas.

I don't know if this works - but I know this can't be the solution until drug testing can be done on premesis with immediate results. I don't want some lousy cousin of a govenor making 400 million a year for testing piss when we can get it done in house for a fraction.
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Re: Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistanc

Post by ReneDave » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:18 pm

NavinRJohnson wrote:Dave -- I think the point with the drug testing though is that it is essentially per se fraud if you are using drugs and receiving welfare.
I completely agree with you in principle Paul, any welfare fraud should be vigorously prosecuted. Hell, at minimum that idiot 'poke posted up about that was getting assistance to pay for rent should be on the hook for repaying every damn cent that didn't go towards housing. However, as much as I despise being taken advantage of and/or having my compassion and generosity exploited, I still disagree that there's fiscal, moral, or legal justification for universally requiring drug testing for all cases of welfare assistance. I really think Ryan's nailed it, the few bad apples spoil it for everyone, and there's plenty of laws on the books to go after and prosecute those that deserve it (yes, I know this is somewhat naive and generalized assumption) without adding additional overhead to the programs. Karl's got a point as well, if you consider buying drugs as defrauding the government, then how about alcohol, cigarettes, and fast food?

So yes, while I do think there's room for improvement in government assistance programs I just don't believe that universal drug testing solves anything and smacks of a solution chasing a problem. If the state's is going to incur that kind of cost and barrier to entry then it needs to be based on a clearly defined and demonstrable return on investment and improvement in service. Regardless of the generalized assumptions that can and have been made about the people who enter these programs they can serve a valuable purpose - I can introduce you to a couple of examples in point that owe their educational and careers to just this sort of program. If you really think drug testing would be beneficial, though, define where these temporary assistance programs work and where they don't work (i.e. recipients don't exit the welfare system) and define how indiscriminate drug testing will improve effectiveness and/or reduce overall costs.
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Re: Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistanc

Post by NavinRJohnson » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:59 pm

Honestly, I don't give a flying fuck about how effective it is. I don't want to subsidize your drug use. And yes, if there is a way to enusre they aren't buying booze and cigarettes, let's do that too. Do these people have a right to booze and smoke? Absolutely. But the quid-pro-quo for me paying your fucking bills out of my paycheck is that you really need it. I'm certainly not advocating that drug testing be the only part of an overhaul. It's WAY bigger than that.
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Re: Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistanc

Post by wesleypipesyo » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:07 pm

NavinRJohnson wrote:Honestly, I don't give a flying fuck about how effective it is. I don't want to subsidize your drug use. And yes, if there is a way to enusre they aren't buying booze and cigarettes, let's do that too. Do these people have a right to booze and smoke? Absolutely. But the quid-pro-quo for me paying your fucking bills out of my paycheck is that you really need it. I'm certainly not advocating that drug testing be the only part of an overhaul. It's WAY bigger than that.

I agree. And if people can not find a job after being on welfare, give them a job testing other people for drugs and alcohol.
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Re: Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistanc

Post by ReneDave » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:53 pm

I think we can all agree that anyone who uses public assistance money to support their abusing drugs/alcohol/whatever sucks at life and should be kicked out of the program. I've just only seen data showing that mandatory testing is ineffective at fixing that problem, and ends up costing more tax dollars and making more government.
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Re: Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistanc

Post by NavinRJohnson » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:30 pm

I've got a landry list of government programs we can cut to fund the drug testing issue. And while I might agree that the amount on drugs is a small (not negligible), the proportion out there abusing it to spend the rest of their cash on discretionary items is not. Seeing someone hand over a welfare card while in line at the grocery store on their iPhone 4S is ridiculous.
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Re: Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistanc

Post by karlvin08 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:43 pm

I agree, but that is the part that scares me. The slippery slope begins with them saying you can't use that government check for drugs, and sooner or later they will be telling seniors on social security what brand of bread they are allowed to buy, or disabled veterans what kind of cat food is ok and what kind isn't. The fuckers already have too much power we don't need to give them more. If welfare and whatever other programs have a problem with money spent on drugs, shut the money off all together. Otherwise don't add more red tape and pointless beaurocracy to an already broken system.
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Re: Georgia Law: Mandatory Drug Testing for Public Assistanc

Post by evilelvis » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:58 pm

It will be a failure of course. In particular most drugs that actually screw you up are in and out of your system or are prescription (legal) which if the goal is to get people to WORK then perhaps we should look at other aspects that causes people to have this issue. Maybe ban their TV and Internet except for job sites right? Something is benign as weed that can stay in your system for a lot longer yet in comparison to someone getting drunk daily can function just fine. Stupid. Also let me know when these same lawmakers get tested! That will never happen. Can you imagine how many are on mental pills, Xanax and Viagra. The test center will accidentally discard the lawmakers urine into the sewer and eventually super horny man-eating emo rats will emerge and overtake us all.

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